Or the ones that are convenient to themselves I should add.
By the way, today Slovenia is going to play.
Sloveinia!

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well Sabin, you'd have to define your terms better. When you call someone a "liberal" and they ask what you mean by that and your response is a "joe six pack" (which means your average every day working American) then your commentary loses some of its luster...

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I did not say that, I just called him both joe six pack and liberal, but did not define "liberal", if you want a quick definition here it comes "multiculturalist" or selfish individualist.

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That is definately not the truth. There are "selfish individualist" conservatives, for one thing, and there are very selfless liberals. If you are speaking of politicians, then yeah- almost all politicians are out for themselves. But that does not straitjacket them into the "liberal" category. No offense, but you obviously don't have any idea what you are talking about.

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Conservatives are worried about the whole, the culture, morals and ethnicity of their own people, they are not selfish as unvirtuos liberals, you do not know crap about this.

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"Even though" I'm a liberal, I am more concerned about society than myself. YOU don't know crap about this. There are selfish liberals and conservatives. There are altruistic conservatives and liberals. You seem to be an extremely close-minded person. I feel sorry for you.

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And I most certainly dont fall into the position of either Liberal or Conservative - There are things that really dont peak my give-a-shit meter, and then there are things that I think are important and have to be discussed.

Sabin, you really are just being ignorant. You know some of what your spouting off about, but you dont know enough to hold your own against someone who DOES know what they are talking about. Just back out now, and you may escape the people of this thread thinking you are a complete idiot.

Afterall, you did have the sense to back out, that doesnt make you a complete idiot

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You do not know a crap about what you are talking about, let us name some liberals freaks out there:
Summer Redstone
Allen ginsberg

Look at American society, hip hop, celebrity boxe, bitches who pretend to sing( mariah carey, britney spears) all those Liberals masters enforce this subculture into the minds of ignorants sally soccermoms, jow sixpacks, etc... Never a society was more degenerated, corrupted and un moral as today America, and all the liberal mass is influenced by the media... Are you going to tell me liberals do not play a negative role in society? And you tell me I do not know anything about...
I do not have enough time know to give a longer answer.

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No, I do believe most liberals (in the political sense meant here) are degenerate to society, but I usually say it with a little more intelligence i.e. not be as annoying as you are here. This is a god damn Soccer thread, my god...and merlyn asked you to stop, so do so.

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We arent arguing about people who are liberal, we are argueing about wether or not WE are liberal.

I may not act like a patriot very often, and I may not push it on anybody like some people do, but you really are being a dumbass. You're calling us ignorant, yet you base your opinions of america on our popculture? Puhleeze.

The "Joe Sixpack" of america doesnt care about politics, the liberals who lobby congress and such dont enforce anything, very few liberals have any place in the workings of our government, therefore they dont enforce anything.

Trust me, out of the 4 or 5 people in the thread, and out of the 50 or so people on this board, you are by FAR the most ignorant.

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"No, I do believe most liberals (in the political sense meant here) are degenerate to society, but I usually say it with a little more intelligence i.e. not be as annoying as you are here."

At least I voice my opinion, this is the selfishness I was talking about, you agree with me, but since it is very convenient for you to be quiet you just shut your voice.

"We arent arguing about people who are liberal, we are argueing about wether or not WE are liberal."

You said "I didnt slander your race, we are both human."

This is a LIBERAL statement... Proved.

"I may not act like a patriot very often, and I may not push it on anybody like some people do, but you really are being a dumbass."

I am not asking for you to be a patriot, but only to try to see beyond, not accept all mass media tells you, sway away from ignorant pop culture.

"You're calling us ignorant, yet you base your opinions of america on our popculture? Puhleeze."

What else you society has? You see, North America has degenerated to a consumerist and sick society, there is not much more than your pop culture to comment about. What do you want me to base in?

"The "Joe Sixpack" of america doesnt care about politics, the liberals who lobby congress and such dont enforce anything, very few liberals have any place in the workings of our government, therefore they dont enforce anything."

I thought you did not know what joe six pack is...
You are proving to be VERY ignorant, learn your facts straight, first of all liberals do posses high power in goverment, also, you are showing you have a plain mind, there are more ways to enforce things than throught goverment, and mass media is the most powerful, when MTV tells young North Americans that is "fashion" to behave like a happer, live a hedonist and un moral life- basically what hip hop is about- also things can be enforced at the development of a person, if people keep telling you things since you were a child, the obvious is that you will believe those things, and that is what the do since elementary school, they teach lies, misinformation, etc, I could supply you with more ways to enforce things, but your plain mind would not understand.
I can give you an example of this, someone called me "mr.wacky conspiracy guy." do you see? people are enforced with pre conceived ideas, and when someone oppose them for the sake of true, why bother discuss? just call him "mr.wacky conspiracy guy. " you have millions of joe six packs and sally soccer moms robots to stand by your side.

"Trust me, out of the 4 or 5 people in the thread, and out of the 50 or so people on this board, you are by FAR the most ignorant."

Oh really? "And as far as I know, we are both also anglo-saxon..but dont quote me on that." Well, there is at least one that is more ignorant than me...

Merlin, sorry to keep with this, but if they reply again I will gladly start another thread and stop using this one.

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uhh, I don't think you got my PM sabin, but I said when I called you "mr.wacky conspiracy guy" I was JOKING. You obviously see things in a different perspective then others, many other people do, and I think that's cool. And I am NOT an average joe sixpack or a sally soccermom, I don't even live in the united states. And what lies could elementary school teach you? I mean, it's mainly math and english stuff.

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Sabin, it'd be nice if you tried to be a bit more polite when you responded instead of biting everyone's heads off. It doesn't help your argument at all and makes you look rather foolish.

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Sabin does have a valid point or two, although he's not communicating it very well.

Traditionally, "conservative" (from the verb, to conserve) are more interested in keeping things as they are. The status quo. This feeling ranges from everything from having a constructionist view of the Constitution to liking older music to being opposed to abortion or seatbelt laws. Conservatives (traditionally) at least profess to care about the community as a whole, since they see most outside elements of the community to be alien, strange, unhelpful, and sometimes eve degenerate from a moral standpoint. This then leads them to be in favor of larger "communal" freedoms (like looser economies and a sound military) while being opposed to more "personal" freedoms (like being in favor of school uniforms or being against abortion).

Liberals however, again, traditionally, are far more embracing and accepting of change. Experimentation leads to success in their mind. This feeling ranges from everything from looser criminal sentences to liking newer clothing styles to being opposed to religious worship in schools or strict arts and entertainment guidelines. Ergo, Liberals, as a definition, care more about the individual, they see efforts to constrain their own impulses to be derogatory, inhumane, and an infringement upon their "natural right" to live however they wish to. This leads them to be in favor of more "personal" freedoms (like low drinking ages and no draft laws) while being opposed to more "communal" freedoms (like resisting immigration laws or opposing education standards).


The problem then, obviously, is that liberals view conservatives to be backwards, bigoted hard-asses while conservatives see liberals as immature, degenerate, fools. Thus, conflict ensues :P

I think the problem being had in the conversation is that the term "liberal" and "conservative" are used in America almost interchangeably with "Democrat" and "Republican" which is where, in particular Rountree's, complaints come into play. A liberal and a conservative mean much deeper things than we often times use them as, Cless' defintion is a good start, although it's a bit liberally-biased (:P not your fault, we all have grown up in a liberal society :P). Also keep in mind Sabin (I think) is Russian and therefore would use more of a textbook translation of the word "liberal" than any of you might have as a conception of it, having grown up in English and all.

As my Ancient Greece reference of the week, a great classic example of a liberal vs. conservative clashing in history is the epic Athens vs. Sparta rivalry. Using this as an example (if you think into it and don't skim the surface) provides a brilliant insight into the nuances of liberal and conservative culture, and why they come into such frequent clashings.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sabin
Can you prove it? Just because some whinning Canadians complain do not mean crap. Did you see how many times Russia got robbed in Winter Games? It seems you only watch news that is convinient.

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sabin
Did you see how many times Russia got robbed in Winter Games? It seems you only watch news that is convinient.

---

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"uhh, I don't think you got my PM sabin, but I said when I called you "mr.wacky conspiracy guy" I was JOKING. You obviously see things in a different perspective then others, many other people do, and I think that's cool. And I am NOT an average joe sixpack or a sally soccermom, I don't even live in the united states. And what lies could elementary school teach you? I mean, it's mainly math and english stuff."

Yes, but I pointed out because although a joke, it is a very commom name-calling when someone presents opposing views.
Lies at school, wel, when people teach at school that existed a "Russian" Revolution, organized BY and FOR Russians without bother telling the actual true, or presenting the straight facts, it is a blatant and counsious lie, or when they say nazis made soup with jewish corpses or used their skin to do hell know what, please! Or when it is said Europeans invented and started slave trade world wide, they took poor africans and thus it was created the word "slave", in fact they hide many informations about slave trade, but that is another story.
It is not only at school system they bare faced lie, hollywood is the biggest "liar", the amount of crap coming from it is incredible. They made a film in which Polish "butchers" were, instead of victims from nazis, but rather partners persecuting poor and peaceful jews.
Media is the one who tells more lies, and more bare faced, how can American people believe osama bin ladden blew the twin towers because he hates freedom and democracy- watching bush, the most stupid character ever in any goverment, saying this is hilarious- how can a big lie, as the one told by mass media accusing egipcians of have sunken the US liberty ship, and killing dozens of people be let go so easily? Etc and etc
You see, there is lie everywhere, people should wake up and look for the hidden true.

Kagon

"Sabin, it'd be nice if you tried to be a bit more polite when you responded instead of biting everyone's heads off. It doesn't help your argument at all and makes you look rather foolish."

I am being polite, I just answered "nervous" once, and I said why.

Merlin

I agree mostly, but keep in mind language is always developing, and so are words, as times passes by words gain wider meanigs-or narrower, depends on.

Zero

"and after that he whines about his "race" being insulted...jeebus, I should have read this thread sooner, I don't know if it's because I'm tired or this is just silly but I had a few laughs

whining canadians...haw, now there's a good one"

Care to elaborate please?
Thank you

Charlemagne

"THEY WERENT ROBBED! THEY JUST CANT SKATE WORTH SHIT!!! MAYBE IF YOU KNEW ANY THING ABOUT ICE SKATING YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN ALL THE CRAP THEY FAILED AT PULLING OFF!!! SO DONT TALK ABOUT THINGS YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!!!! and as for the other things they were cheated at... I'm just going to assume that they werent even trying to win any medals in Curling."

Double standards...

Last edited by Sabin on 06-09-2002 at 04:45 AM

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Silence you Monstrous Metallurgical Meddler!!

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"Silence you Monstrous Metallurgical Meddler!!"

Interesting point of view, indeed.

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Thanks, beleive it or not, I dont even try. I just open my mouth and things like that come out. can you beleive it?

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You must be really gifted, good for you.

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VEry interesting view. It is as important to this thread as the theories of how the stars and planets gravity firled intereact and why they clog up your toilets with some of the stinkiest crap (pun intended) earth has to offer.

Also important to consider is why aliens abduct cows in the Midwest and what this has to do with the Japanese Stock Market, Elton John being a fruit, and rabies.

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I know! But my friends tell me that you are stupid and that I shouldnt like you! so im not going to!

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I am not bad, it is just that people can not follow my brightness or perception, people tend to reject what is against their convenience.

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*enters a nice and long facepalm*

look, hollywood is a big fat liar. I completely agree with you. Why? CAUSE THEY MAKE MOVIES! Movies are a form of entertainment, and i find matrix-style dodge effect a lot more interesting then seeing the hero get shot every second. SO they lie, so people watch it, they make money, make more movies, people watch it, riots start, etc.

The media doesn't tell the whole truth, that's true. Which is cause you can't tell certain stuff on public channels, cause if people get too much info about something, they get disgusted by it, and don't want more news about that subject. I'm too lazy right now to go into a big rant, but any person with half a brain cell can figure this out. And if you get huge false media stuff, like that egyptians thing, turn off the movie channel.

You are really polite, yeah, noone can compete with you. You are the polite master. [/sarcasm]

Merlin explained it well, and hth can either one be dangerous to society? I mean, there are conservative people, your parents for instance, who listen to old people singing. And there are your liberals, you for instance, who listens to really loud rock. (Just a well known example here, don't give me that "it's different" crap, cause it isn't)

And the zero comment, your full of crap, and highly funny.

I know nothing about sports, so i won't comment on the charl thing.

*commits seppuko*

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"VEry interesting view. It is as important to this thread as the theories of how the stars and planets gravity firled intereact and why they clog up your toilets with some of the stinkiest crap (pun intended) earth has to offer.

Also important to consider is why aliens abduct cows in the Midwest and what this has to do with the Japanese Stock Market, Elton John being a fruit, and rabies."

You should definetely stay out of this discussion.

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I don't reject what is against my convienence. Look, I go to a 7-11 occasionally, it's convientent, but I don't reject say... the local grocery store because it's nto as convienent as my beloved 7-11...

Oh how much I miss those Slurpees.

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I'm laughing at this thread...but not for the reasons you might think. Anyway it can get back to the world cup and not a free-for-all label-slapping kegger? I think Merl is anxious to hear more about soccer/football teams.

Go Ireland! 'Cause they're kawaii!

Last edited by Faetan on 06-09-2002 at 06:07 AM

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Movies never lie to me!!!

And spaz should stay out of the convo and not me!?this prove you are not r having teh brain sells cuz u r teh smoking teh w33d~~~~!!!!!!!111111111111

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sabin, if anyone should stay out of this convo, it's you. Seeing as how you don't have a clue what you are talking about, you insinuate countless things, your much too funny to be taken seriously and people laugh at you. A lot.

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